Daf 85b
אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן בַּר יִצְחָק אַף אֲנַן נָמֵי תְּנֵינָא הַנִּרְבָּע וְהַמּוּקְצֶה וְהַנֶּעֱבָד וְאֶתְנַן וּמְחִיר וְטוּמְטוּם וְאַנְדְּרוֹגִינוֹס כּוּלָּן מְטַמְּאִין בְּגָדִים אַבֵּית הַבְּלִיעָה שְׁמַע מִינַּהּ
אִי בָּשָׂר וָדָם
גְּמָ' תָּנוּ רַבָּנַן וְהִקְטִיר הַכֹּהֵן אֶת הַכֹּל הַמִּזְבֵּחָה לְרַבּוֹת הַעֲצָמוֹת וְהַגִּידִים וְהַקְּרָנַיִם וְהַטְּלָפַיִם יָכוֹל אֲפִילּוּ פֵּרְשׁוּ תַּלְמוּד לוֹמַר וְעָשִׂיתָ עֹלֹתֶיךָ הַבָּשָׂר וְהַדָּם
הַצֶּמֶר שֶׁבְּרָאשֵׁי כְבָשִׂים וְשֵׂעָר שֶׁבִּזְקַן תְּיָשִׁים וְהָעֲצָמוֹת וְהַגִּידִים וְהַקְּרָנַיִם וְהַטְּלָפַיִם בִּזְמַן שֶׁהֵם מְחוּבָּרִים יַעֲלוּ שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר וְהִקְטִיר הַכֹּהֵן אֶת הַכֹּל פֵּירְשׁוּ לֹא יַעֲלוּ שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר וְעָשִׂיתָ עֹלֹתֶיךָ הַבָּשָׂר וְהַדָּם
מַתְנִי' וְאֵלּוּ אִם עָלוּ יֵרְדוּ בְּשַׂר קָדְשֵׁי קָדָשִׁים וּבְשַׂר קָדָשִׁים קַלִּים וּמוֹתַר הָעוֹמֶר וּשְׁתֵּי הַלֶּחֶם וְלֶחֶם הַפָּנִים וּשְׁיָרֵי מְנָחוֹת וְהַקְּטוֹרֶת
מַאן דְּמַתְנֵי אַסֵּיפָא כָּל שֶׁכֵּן אַרֵישָׁא וּמַאן דְּמַתְנֵי אַרֵישָׁא אֲבָל אַסֵּיפָא לָאו בְּנֵי הַקְטָרָה נִינְהוּ
רַב מָרִי מַתְנֵי אַרֵישָׁא רַב חֲנִינָא מִסּוּרָא מַתְנֵי אַסֵּיפָא הַעֲצָמוֹת וְהַגִּידִין וְהַקְּרָנַיִם וְהַטְּלָפַיִם בִּזְמַן שֶׁמְּחוּבָּרִין יַעֲלוּ פֵּרְשׁוּ לֹא יַעֲלוּ אָמַר עוּלָּא לֹא שָׁנוּ אֶלָּא שֶׁלֹּא מָשְׁלָה בָּהֶן הָאוּר אֲבָל מָשְׁלָה בָּהֶן הָאוּר יַעֲלוּ
כְּשֵׁם שֶׁאִם עָלָה כּוּ' אָמַר עוּלָּא לֹא שָׁנוּ אֶלָּא שֶׁלֹּא מָשְׁלָה בָּהֶן הָאוּר אֲבָל מָשְׁלָה בָּהֶן הָאוּר יַעֲלוּ
רַבִּי חֲנִינָא סְגַן הַכֹּהֲנִים כּוּ' מַאי קָא מַשְׁמַע לַן אִיבָּעֵית אֵימָא מַעֲשֶׂה קָא מַשְׁמַע לַן וְאִיבָּעֵית אֵימָא מַאי דּוֹחֶה כִּלְאַחַר יָד
אָמַר רַבָּה תָּא שְׁמַע רַבִּי עֲקִיבָא מַכְשִׁיר בְּבַעֲלֵי מוּמִין וְאִם אִיתָא נַכְשֵׁיר נָמֵי בְּנִרְבָּע הוֹאִיל וְכָשֵׁר בָּעוֹפוֹת שְׁמַע מִינַּהּ
כֹּל הֵיכָא דְּאִיתֵיהּ בְּרוֹבֵעַ אִיתֵיהּ בְּנִרְבָּע כֹּל הֵיכָא דְּלֵיתֵיהּ בְּרוֹבֵעַ לֵיתֵיהּ בְּנִרְבָּע אוֹ דִלְמָא הֲרֵי נֶעֶבְדָה בּוֹ עֲבֵירָה
בָּעֵי רַבִּי יִרְמְיָה יֵשׁ נִרְבָּע בָּעוֹפוֹת אוֹ אֵין נִרְבָּע בָּעוֹפוֹת מִי אָמַר מִן הַבְּהֵמָה לְהוֹצִיא אֶת הָרוֹבֵעַ וְהַנִּרְבָּע
אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן לֹא הִכְשִׁיר רַבִּי עֲקִיבָא אֶלָּא בְּדוּקִּין שֶׁבָּעַיִן הוֹאִיל וּכְשֵׁרִים בָּעוֹפוֹת וְהוּא שֶׁקָּדַם הֶקְדֵּשָׁן אֶת מוּמָן וּמוֹדֶה רַבִּי עֲקִיבָא בְּעוֹלַת נְקֵבָה דִּכְשֶׁקָּדַם מוּמָהּ לְהֶקְדֵּשָׁהּ דָּמְיָא
וְאֵלּוּ לֹא הָיָה פְּסוּלָן [וְכוּ']
רַב נַחְמָן בַּר יִצְחָק מַתְנֵי הָכִי אָמַר רַבִּי חִיָּיא בַּר אַבָּא בָּעֵי רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן אֵימוּרֵי קָדָשִׁים קַלִּים שֶׁהֶעֱלָן לִפְנֵי זְרִיקַת דָּמָן יֵשׁ בָּהֶן מְעִילָה אוֹ לָא אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַבִּי אַמֵּי וְתִיבְּעֵי לָךְ יְרִידָה אֲמַר לֵיהּ יְרִידָה לָא קָא מִיבַּעְיָא לִי דְּנַעֲשׂוּ לַחְמוֹ שֶׁל מִזְבֵּחַ כִּי קָמִיבַּעְיָא לִי מְעִילָה וּפָשֵׁיט הָכִי לֹא יֵרְדוּ וְאֵין בָּהֶן מְעִילָה
אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַבִּי אַמֵּי וְתִיבְּעֵי לָךְ מְעִילָה אֲמַר לֵיהּ מְעִילָה לָא קָמִיבַּעְיָא לִי דִּזְרִיקָה הוּא דְּקָבְעָה לְהוּ בִּמְעִילָה כִּי קָמִיבַּעְיָא לֵיהּ יְרִידָה וּפָשֵׁיט לֹא יֵרְדוּ וְאֵין בָּהֶן מְעִילָה
אָמַר רַבִּי חִיָּיא בַּר אַבָּא בָּעֵי רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן אֵימוּרֵי קָדָשִׁים קַלִּים שֶׁהֶעֱלָן לִפְנֵי זְרִיקַת דָּמָן יֵרְדוּ אוֹ לֹא יֵרְדוּ
וַאֲנַן נֵיקוּ נֶעְבֵּיד לְהוּ לְכֹהֲנִים מִילְּתָא דְּאָתוּ בַּהּ לִידֵי תַקָּלָה אֲפִילּוּ הָכִי עֲדִיפָא שֶׁלֹּא יְהוּ קָדְשֵׁי שָׁמַיִם מוּטָלִים כִּנְבֵילָה
And shall we arise and do a thing to priests whereby they may come to a stumbling block? (1) — Even so it is better, that Divine sacrifices should not lie like carrion. (2) R. Hiyya b. Abba said: R. Johanan asked: If the emurim of lesser sacrifices were taken up before their blood was sprinkled, must they go down or not? Said R. Ammi to him: Then inquire about a trespass-offering? (3) — I do not ask about a trespass-offering, he replied, because sprinkling alone makes it subject to a trespass-offering; I only ask about [their] going down. And he [eventually] ruled that they do not go down and do not involve trespass. R. Nahman b. Isaac recited it thus. R. Hiyya b. Abba said, R. Johanan asked: If the emurim of lesser sacrifices were taken up before their blood was sprinkled, do they involve a trespass-offering or not? Said R. Ammi to him: Then ask about [their] going down? I do not ask about going down, he replied, because they have become the food of the altar; (4) I ask only about a trespass- offering. And [eventually] he ruled: They do not go down and do not involve trespass. THE DISQUALIFICATION OF THE FOLLOWING DID NOT ARISE IN THE SANCTUARY, etc. R. Johanan said: Only in the case of cataracts in the eye did R. Akiba declare them fit, since such are fit in the case of birds, and provided that their consecration [for a sacrifice] preceded their blemish. And R. Akiba admits in the case of a female burntoffering [that it must be taken down], because that is tantamount to the blemish preceding its consecration. (5) R. Jeremiah asked: Is nirba’ [a disqualification] in birds or is nirba’ no [disqualification] in birds? (6) Do we say: [Ye shall bring your offering] of the cattle (7) excludes roba’ and nirba’: [hence] whatever is subject to [the disqualification of] roba’ is subject to [the disqualification of] nirba’; and whatever is not subject to roba’ is not subject to nirba’. (8) Or perhaps, sin has been committed with it? (9) — Said Raba, Come and hear: R. AKIBA DECLARED BLEMISHED ANIMALS FIT. Now, if this is correct, (10) let him also declare a nirba’ fit,11 since it is fit in the case of birds. (12) Hence infer from this [that it is not fit]. R. Nahman b. Isaac said: We too have learnt thus: With regard to a nirba’, a bird set apart [for an idolatrous sacrifice], a bird worshipped, a [harlot's] hire, the price [of a dog], a tumtum (13) and a hermaphrodite, all of these defile garments when they are in the gullet. (14) This proves it. R. HANINA THE SEGAN OF THE PRIESTS. What does he inform us? — I can say that he informs us of the actual fact. (15) Alternatively, what does HE REPULSED mean? Indirectly. (16) JUST AS THEY DO NOT DESCEND IF THEY ONCE ASCENDED, etc. ‘Ulla said: They learnt this only where the fire had not taken hold of it; but if the fire had taken hold of it, it must re-ascend. R. Mari recited this in connection with the first clause. (17) R. Hanina of Sura recited it in connection with the final clause: (18) With regard to the bones, tendons, horns and hoofs, if they are attached [to the animal], they ascend [the altar]; if they are severed [from the animal] they do not ascend. (19) Said ‘Ulla: They learnt this only where the fire had not taken hold of them; but if the fire had taken hold of them, they ascend. (20) He who recites it in connection with the final clause [holds that it applies] all the more to the first clause. (21) He however who recites it in connection with the first clause [maintains]: but as for the final clause, those things are not normally burnt [on the altar]. (22) MISHNAH. THE FOLLOWING IF THEY ASCENDED GO DOWN: (23) THE FLESH OF MOST SACRED SACRIFICES AND THE FLESH OF LESSER SACRIFICES; THE RESIDUE OF THE ‘OMER; (24) THE TWO LOAVES; (25) THE SHEWBREAD; (26) THE RESIDUE OF MEAL-OFFERINGS; (27) AND INCENSE. (28) THE WOOL ON THE HEADS OF LAMBS, THE HAIR OF HE-GOATS BEARDS; THE BONES, TENDONS, HORNS AND HOOFS, IF THEY ARE ATTACHED, GO UP, BECAUSE IT IS SAID, AND THE PRIEST SHALL MAKE THE WHOLE SMOKE ON THE ALTAR; (29) IF THEY ARE SEVERED [FROM THE ANIMAL], THEY DO NOT GO UP, FOR IT IS SAID, AND THOU SHALT OFFER THY BURNTOFFERINGS, THE FLESH AND THE BLOOD, [UPON THE ALTAR OF THE LORD THY GOD]]. (30) GEMARA. Our Rabbis taught : And the priest shall make the whole smoke on the altar: this includes the bones, tendons, horns and hoofs. You might think, even if they were severed; therefore it states, ‘And thou shalt offer thy burnt-offerings, the flesh and the blood’. If [we had only the text] flesh and blood [to go by],
(1). ↑ Surely we may not cause another priest to think that they are fit.
(2). ↑ Hence they must be washed.
(3). ↑ If one misappropriates sacred property to secular use he is liable to a trespass-offering. Normally when emurim are laid on the altar (after the sprinkling of the blood) they become the property of the altar, and anyone thus misappropriating them incurs a trespass-offering. Then let the question be asked: does the law of trespass apply if they were taken up before the sprinkling of the blood?
(4). ↑ V. supra a.
(5). ↑ For notes v. supra 35b.
(6). ↑ There is no question about roba’, as a male bird does not copulate with a woman.
(7). ↑ Lev. I, 2. ‘Of’ (Heb. מ (is partitive, and regarded as a limitation.
(8). ↑ So that it does not disqualify a bird.
(9). ↑ Hence it is disqualified.
(10). ↑ That nirba’ does not disqualify a bird.
(11). ↑ Sc. an animal, in the sense that it does not descend.
(12). ↑ Even to sacrifice such in the first place.
(13). ↑ An animal or bird whose genitals are covered up, so that its sex cannot be determined. — This passage refers to birds.
(14). ↑ V. p. 257, n. 1. This proves that nirba’ is a disqualification.
(15). ↑ What happened in such cases.
(16). ↑ Not openly, as this would seem to degrade sacrifices, but covertly. Lit., ‘as with the back of the hand’.
(17). ↑ The present Mishnah, referring to unfit animals.
(18). ↑ The next Mishnah.
(19). ↑ And if they did, they must be removed.
(20). ↑ Even if taken down.
(21). ↑ Because the first clause deals with things that are normally burnt on the altar.
(22). ↑ Therefore even if the fire had taken hold of them, they are taken down, since they have no connection with the altar at all.
(23). ↑ Because they do not belong to the altar at all.
(24). ↑ The ‘omer (q.v. Glos.) after it was waved; v. Lev. XXIII, (20) seq.
(25). ↑ V. Lev. XXIII, 15 seq.
(26). ↑ V. Ex. XXV, 30.
(27). ↑ V. Lev. II, 2 seq.
(28). ↑ Which must be burnt on the inner altar.
(29). ↑ Lev. I, 9.
(30). ↑ Deut. XII, 27.
(1). ↑ Surely we may not cause another priest to think that they are fit.
(2). ↑ Hence they must be washed.
(3). ↑ If one misappropriates sacred property to secular use he is liable to a trespass-offering. Normally when emurim are laid on the altar (after the sprinkling of the blood) they become the property of the altar, and anyone thus misappropriating them incurs a trespass-offering. Then let the question be asked: does the law of trespass apply if they were taken up before the sprinkling of the blood?
(4). ↑ V. supra a.
(5). ↑ For notes v. supra 35b.
(6). ↑ There is no question about roba’, as a male bird does not copulate with a woman.
(7). ↑ Lev. I, 2. ‘Of’ (Heb. מ (is partitive, and regarded as a limitation.
(8). ↑ So that it does not disqualify a bird.
(9). ↑ Hence it is disqualified.
(10). ↑ That nirba’ does not disqualify a bird.
(11). ↑ Sc. an animal, in the sense that it does not descend.
(12). ↑ Even to sacrifice such in the first place.
(13). ↑ An animal or bird whose genitals are covered up, so that its sex cannot be determined. — This passage refers to birds.
(14). ↑ V. p. 257, n. 1. This proves that nirba’ is a disqualification.
(15). ↑ What happened in such cases.
(16). ↑ Not openly, as this would seem to degrade sacrifices, but covertly. Lit., ‘as with the back of the hand’.
(17). ↑ The present Mishnah, referring to unfit animals.
(18). ↑ The next Mishnah.
(19). ↑ And if they did, they must be removed.
(20). ↑ Even if taken down.
(21). ↑ Because the first clause deals with things that are normally burnt on the altar.
(22). ↑ Therefore even if the fire had taken hold of them, they are taken down, since they have no connection with the altar at all.
(23). ↑ Because they do not belong to the altar at all.
(24). ↑ The ‘omer (q.v. Glos.) after it was waved; v. Lev. XXIII, (20) seq.
(25). ↑ V. Lev. XXIII, 15 seq.
(26). ↑ V. Ex. XXV, 30.
(27). ↑ V. Lev. II, 2 seq.
(28). ↑ Which must be burnt on the inner altar.
(29). ↑ Lev. I, 9.
(30). ↑ Deut. XII, 27.
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